abolished when Messiah came?
This argument is brought to us by Steve Rudd. We will begin by quoting his exact words in gray:
"‘Return, O faithless sons,’ declares the Lord; ‘For I am a master to you, And I will take you one from a city and two from a family, And I will bring you to Zion.’ "Then I will give you shepherds after My own heart, who will feed you on knowledge and understanding. "It shall be in those days when you are multiplied and increased in the land," declares the Lord, "they will no longer say, ‘The ark of the covenant of the Lord.’ And it will not come to mind, nor will they remember it, nor will they miss it, nor will it be made again. "At that time they will call Jerusalem ‘The Throne of the Lord,’ and all the nations will be gathered to it, to Jerusalem, for the name of the Lord; nor will they walk anymore after the stubbornness of their evil heart. " (Jeremiah 3:14-17)
This verse is a messianic prophecy fulfilled at the cross.
1."The Throne of the Lord" was fulfilled in Acts 2:33-36
2."all the nations will be gathered to it, to Jerusalem" echoes Isa 2:2-4 and is fulfilled in Acts Luke 24:46-47 "and Jesus said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem . " (Luke 24:46-47) and Acts 1:8 and Heb 12:22 that says all Christians are gathered to the heavenly Jerusalem.
3.The Ark of the covenant housed the covenant: 1 Kings 8:21. Ark of the Covenant really means, "container or house of the covenant." If the house of the covenant was was forgotten, then the covenant itself was forgotten.
Jer 3:14-17, Jeremiah is speaking to backsliding Israel who will come back. God will give her shepherds according to His own heart who will feed her with knowledge and understanding (v. 15). As a result of this good teaching, people will multiply "in those days" (v. 16) and will say "no more, 'The ark of the covenant'" (v. 16). In fact, it will not even come to mind, be remembered, visited nor made any more (ibid.). Jeremiah is speaking of this in an approved way, contextually. What was in the ark of the covenant? The 10 Commandments correct? The 10 Commandments were the covenant (Deut. 4:13; 9:9; 9:11) and the ark contained them (1 Kin. 8:21). Now if the "ark" doesn't come to mind, is not visited or "made" any more, then that which is in the ark is not "made" any more either. Do you see my point? Further, Jeremiah tells us when the ark will not be remembered or visited or made in 3:17, "At THAT TIME (what time?) Jerusalem shall be called the Throne of the Lord, and all the nations shall be gathered to it. . .No more shall they follow the dictates of their evil hearts." When was Jerusalem the "Throne of the Lord" and when did "all nations gather to it" and when did Israel stop following the dictates of their heart? Was it not when God made a new covenant (Jer. 31:31-34) which was "not according" to the first covenant (i.e., 10 comm)? Was Jerusalem not the throne when the law came from there, "For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He shall Judge between the nations. . ." (Is. 2:3, 4). The first covenant came from Sinai the second came from Jerusalem. This is a "Pentecost pointer" as I believe Foy Wallace would once express. All of this tells us that the 10 commandment Covenant was abolished and not given to the church. It doesn't' enter our mind because we are not under it."
See the original post HERE.
We take special interest with the claim that these verses are “a messianic prophecy fulfilled at the cross.” Is this true? The claim is also made that Jeremiah is “speaking of this in an approved way, contextually.” Did our opponant really look into the context of these verses? Let's find out.
Back in chapter 1, a prophecy was made:
And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying, What seest thou? And I said, I see a seething pot; and the face thereof is toward the north.
Then the LORD said unto me, Out of the north an evil shall break forth upon all the inhabitants of the land.
Why was this prophecy made? From chapters 1 through 3 the Lord describes how “backsliding Israel” has turned away from the Lord through her adulteries and idolatries:
(8) And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
(9) And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
Because of their behavior, and their refusal to repent, the Lord has warned that an evil will come “from the north.” What evils are these? Back in chapter 1:
For, lo, I will call all the families of the kingdoms of the north, saith the LORD; and they shall come, and they shall set every one his throne at the entering of the gates of Jerusalem, and against all the walls thereof round about, and against all the cities of Judah.
These are kingdoms. The Lord will bring nations to come unto Israel and destroy them. Notice the following verse:
Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.
Ezekiel also tells us that the king of Babylon is from the north:
For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.
Now back to the verses in question, our opponant never shared with their audience verse 18. But we will:
In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.
They shall come “out” of the land of the north? According to Steve Rudd, the context of these passages is speaking about the time of Jesus. However, if read closely, this is speaking about the time when Israel and Judah were taken captive by the king of the north, Babylon, then later (70 years later - Jeremiah 25:11-12) were freed from the this land ("out" of the north).
Notice Jeremiah chapter 4:
(6) Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction.
(7) The lion is come up from his thicket, and the destroyer of the Gentiles is on his way; he is gone forth from his place to make thy land desolate; and thy cities shall be laid waste, without an inhabitant.
Who is this Lion that shall come and destroy them? It is the “king of the north,” Babylon. Scholars agree that the first beast in Daniel’s vision (Daniel 7:4) the Lion, is Babylon.
Now notice the historic account:
2 Chronicles 36:17-21
(17) Therefore he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion upon young man or maiden, old man, or him that stooped for age: he gave them all into his hand.
(18) And all the vessels of the house of God, great and small, and the treasures of the house of the LORD, and the treasures of the king, and of his princes; all these he brought to Babylon.
(19) And they burnt the house of God, and brake down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all the palaces thereof with fire, and destroyed all the goodly vessels thereof.
(20) And them that had escaped from the sword carried he away to Babylon; where they were servants to him and his sons until the reign of the kingdom of Persia:
(21) To fulfill the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath, to fulfill threescore and ten years.
Verse 21 clearly connects this event with the prophecies of Jeremiah. Yet notice carefully verse 18. It says “all the vessals of the house of God, great and small, and the treasures of the house of the Lord” were all taken away by the king of Babylon. No wonder Jeremiah, when speaking of the Israelites as returned from the north into their land once again, says that they shall also never “visit it” –verse 16. This is not saying that the 10 commandments covenant would be abolished. It is saying that the literal “Ark of the Covenant” would never again be seen by the Israelites! Otherwise, how could they not “visit it” again?
The claim is made that “the throne of the Lord was fulfilled in Acts 2:33-36.” However, Acts 2:33-36 is speaking about the throne God the father has given Jesus in heaven. Jeremiah 3:17 is specifically speaking about “Jerusalem” as being called the throne of the Lord.
Next they say the following:
"'all the nations will be gathered to it, to Jerusalem’ echoes Isa 2:2-4 and is fulfilled in Acts Luke 24:46-47 "and Jesus said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem . " (Luke 24:46-47) and Acts 1:8 and Heb 12:22 that says all Christians are gathered to the heavenly Jerusalem.”
Luke 24:46-47 says that repentance will “begin” to be proclaimed in Jerusalem. However, the verse in Jeremiah says that “all nations” will be “gathered” at Jerusalem. While proclaiming the gospel beginning at Jerusalem would no doubt attract many people to Jerusalem, it certainly couldn’t, and didn’t, gather “all nations” there. In fact, Acts 1:8, the verse they use here, shows how the gospel wont only be proclaimed in Jerusalem, but ALSO in other nations such as Judea, Samaria and “unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
Hebrews 12:22 does speak about heavenly Jerusalem, however the context of Jeremiah 3, as we have already seen, is on the earthly Jerusalem.
Lastly, they said:
"The Ark of the covenant housed the covenant: 1 Kings 8:21. Ark of the Covenant really means, "container or house of the covenant." If the house of the covenant was was forgotten, then the covenant itself was forgotten."
Now that we know the context is not about the time after the cross, but rather the time when the king of the North, Babylon, takes Jerusalem captive, we know that the Jews actually NEVER forgot the covenant. Even though they didn’t have the “Ark” of the covenant any more, they still remembered the covenant, including all its laws, as can be seen by their behavior in the New Testament.
Steve Rudd and the authors at www.bible.ca have made the mistake of taking portions of scripture out of context. However, this isn't the first time they've been caught doing this. The authors at truthorfables.net conducted a research on some of the materials presented at Steve's website in regards to the Sabbath and Sunday debate. They too have found, that Steve dousn't always read and present to his audience the full context. The research revealed, that some quotes which were supposed to prove Christians never kept the Sabbath in the early centuries, actually proved quite the opposite. Click Here to read the research for yourself.
We won’t accuse Steve of doing this on purpose, as if our promise never to do. It could be, that since they have so much refuting to do, that purhaps they just didn’t have enough time to read Jeremiah 3 in full. We’ll leave it for you to decide.